The Four Worlds Podcast
The Four Worlds Podcast explores how a simple idea can grow into something that changes the world. Each episode takes you on a journey—from the spark of inspiration, through the creation process, innovation challenges, and to the path of real-world production.
From sketch to shelf and prototype to product, join us as we uncover the stories behind breakthrough inventions and innovations with the creators, engineers, designers, and visionaries who bring them to life.
The Four Worlds Podcast
Threads of Change: How SMART Is Redefining Textile Production
Ever wonder who stands between a pile of cast-off clothes and a landfill? We sit down with Jessica Franken, Director of Government Affairs at SMART, to unpack how a reuse-first approach turns textiles into a second-life economy—and why the right rules can scale it globally. Jessica takes us inside the quiet infrastructure of circularity: collectors sourcing from charities and institutions, expert sorters finding the best next use, and recyclers turning what can’t be worn into insulation and padding. Along the way, we dig into Extended Producer Responsibility for textiles, and explore how reuse-first language can lock in real environmental gains. 👖
The policy stakes are high. UN conversations about what counts as “reusable” versus “waste” could reshape cross-border flows overnight, affecting both landfill diversion and livelihoods built around quality secondhand apparel. Jessica breaks down how SMART is advocating for definitions and standards that reflect operational reality, not just theory. We also touch on the Americas Act’s nod to textile reuse and recycling infrastructure, as well as ongoing U.S. efforts to open market access where demand for secondhand goods is strong. 👕
If you care about sustainability, supply chains, or the future of fashion, this conversation connects the dots from sorting floors to statehouses. You’ll learn how to prepare for data and reporting under textile EPR, what success should look like in measurable outcomes, and how individuals and companies can engage—whether by tracking state bills, submitting comments, or partnering with trade groups. ♻️
Welcome to the Four Worlds Podcast from Tomorrow's World Today. We're diving into the latest in tech, science, and sustainability, from nature's mysteries in the world of inspiration to the hands-on crafts of creation, the bold breakthroughs of innovation, and the scaled-up wonders of production. This is your ticket to the stories shaping tomorrow. Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Four Worlds Podcast. On today's episode, we have Jessica Franken, the Director of Government Affairs at Secondary Materials in Recycled Textiles Association, SMART for short. SMART promotes the reuse and recycling of textiles to drive a more sustainable and circular economy. Jessica, welcome to the show and thank you so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's really great to be here, and I'm excited to be able to talk with you.
SPEAKER_00:No, we really appreciate you taking your time. And before we really get into things about what you do, you know, kind of why you're here today, give us a little background on SMART and a little bit about your role with them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. So I handle direct, I'm the director of government affairs for SMART, which, as you said, is the Secondary Materials and Recycled Textiles Association. And our trade association represents some 200 businesses here in the United States, in North America, and throughout the world that are involved in basically providing the reverse logistics for the textile and apparel sector. So these are companies that are involved in reusing and recycling textiles, either pre-consumer, you know, industrial materials that are left over during the industrial manufacturing process, or oftentimes, or probably most often, sourced post-consumer. So these are materials that a consumer has used and no longer is finding them useful. And so what our industry does is we capture those materials and then see to it that they are either reused, recycled, or repurposed in some way. And so that includes sourcing materials from institutional facilities like hospitals and schools or from charitable organizations like Goodwill and Salvation Army, who maybe aren't able to sell all of their materials in store. And so that gives them the opportunity to sell them and bring in more money for their charitable activities. And a lot of times these materials are either exported or, as I mentioned, maybe repurposed if they're not suitable for export to in things like industrial wiping cloths or recycled into things like insulation and carpet padding. So really, this industry is doing everything that it can to find a home for these materials so that they don't go to landfill. And it's industry, it's kind of, I think, technically been around for many hundreds of years, but our industry group has been around since 1932. So, so nearly a hundred years. And and everybody probably gets tired of me saying it, but I do like to mention the tagline smart was green before green was smart. Um we were doing this kind of work all along.
SPEAKER_00:So you're really kind of driving this industry that's that's really trending forward, you know, with an emphasis on sustainability, of course. Now, where does your role come in? And and you know, what do you kind of do for this initiative?
SPEAKER_02:Sure. So as the director of government affairs, I'm really the liaison between the industry and all of our different member companies that participate in the organization and public policy makers. And that's at the local level, state level, federal level, and uh more recently at the international level. And so basically I'm that intermediary, and a lot of the work that I do is from the side of our industry. I take what can be very complex policy activities and try to distill them into clear, easy to understand messages so that our members can either be aware or you know act on their own behalf if they need to. And in the other direction, I also serve as the representative of the industry before policymakers. So, you know, I help them understand the realities of how the industry works and the impacts that a particular policy might have. So again, uh I'm kind of that in-between that intermediary. I like to say that I speak both of the languages and and help translate.
SPEAKER_00:And again, in an industry like that, that's a it's a really important job to have, especially just with the way the industry is is trending. So I I want to know what what inspired you to lead government affairs, get into this role uh specifically in the textile reuse and recycling. Is this a an industry that you do deeply care about? Because I'm sure that's important to have, especially what you're doing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Yeah, I I didn't set out to work in textile reuse and recycling. I feel like it kind of found me. My background is in public policy and government affairs work, but I've always been drawn to issues that really sit at the intersection of commerce and also the environment and also social good. And, you know, from my perspective, when you have kind of all of those things coming together, it's that win-win-win in policy. And I began working with Smart in 2007 when I was doing work for what is called a trade association management firm, but you know, a firm that represents industry groups like SMART. Um, and in doing that work, I really quickly realized that this industry is touching all three of those areas, you know, again, commerce, environment, and social good. And what I saw in doing this work was that textile reuse and recycling is really one of the most tangible examples of circularity in action, again, because we all touch these textile and apparel materials on a daily basis throughout the world, um, but also because the companies that I represent these materials that might otherwise end up in landfills and they give them a new life. And again, that's through the resale and repurposing and recycling that I mentioned. So, you know, I think what's inspired me to stay in this field is again all of those positive impacts that are being made just as a course of their day-to-day operations. Um, but then also that kind of the human and economic impact that the industry is making. I don't think I touched upon this earlier, but I did reference the fact that a lot of these materials are exported to countries outside of the United States. And that's because there is really great demand for quality secondhand apparel in a number of developing nations across the world, because these products provide, you know, again, good quality, affordable apparel to people that otherwise might not be able to afford them. And it also creates livelihoods surrounding their own supply chains in their countries in terms of like millions of jobs per country. And so, you know, again, it's that intersection of really positive environmental impact, positive economic impact, and also, you know, positive social impact, you know, on our side and theirs.
SPEAKER_00:Right. No, that's great. You would, you know, um coming up on almost 20 years with Smart, it's it's easy to see those, all that positive stuff that uh the company has been able to do, that you've been able to do in your role. But let's take it back, you know, it could be 2007 or or prior to that, some early career moments that really confirmed the urgency of circular policy work for you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it really was early on, like you said. And, you know, when I first started working with Smart, probably around that 2007, 2008 time frame, I had the opportunity to visit one of our company members of facilities in Baltimore, Maryland. And while I was there, you know, I'd heard about what was going on in the industry, but to see it is something entirely different. And I found myself surrounded by this really, you know, pretty elaborate operation and mountains of textiles and clothing. And each one of these items was being sorted by individuals that have expertise in order to find a way for this material that otherwise might go to landfill to have a second life. And what struck me wasn't the volume of the materials, although that was significant, but really the value in what these materials mean and you know, in what others might call waste. And the fact that, you know, again, there's this whole industry going on behind the scenes that's kind of quietly doing this reclamation and recovery work. And then I think at the same time, though, I was aware of the fact that policymakers at times were writing rules that didn't really reflect the reality of the industry. And I think that's some of what we're seeing now is that you know, policies that could have the potential shut down the very systems that are keeping these materials in circulation. And so that really, I think, was kind of what underlined the urgency for me, you know, that that you really need to have smart policy that supports industries like this that are already doing the good work and have the expertise to manage these materials. And I want to be a part of that, yeah, you know, translating that again to the public policy makers that are making these decisions.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And in in your role working with policy, it's it's slow moving, I'm sure. And you did kind of touch on it. I just want to know what keeps you motivated, you know, in the middle of slow-moving policy environments. You gave a pretty good background. But if you have any other experiences that you wanted to share that kind of uh, you know, keeps you motivated doing what you do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think that like remembering why the work matters, you know, policy can and and typically is painfully slow. Uh in fact, one time I I worked on regulation. I was just talking about this with some friends. I worked on a regulation at the US Environmental Protection Agency for about 10 years myself. But when it started, I think I was seven years old. It had been under development for 30 years. So that gives you an idea of just how slowly some of this policy can move. But then at other times, you also do have policies that move very quickly. Here in the US, it tends to be more at the state and local level. And you see that real-world impact of getting it right or what could happen if you get it wrong. And so again, you know, when a rule change happens that either helps legitimate recycl keep these materials in circulation or potentially threatens it, you know, as you can imagine, that that keeps keeps you pretty motivated to make sure that you keep things moving in, not only moving, but moving in the right direction.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So it just, you know, thinking of, you know, staying in, you know, local policies, but it could even go to the federal pol, you know, federal level as well. I just didn't want to know if there was any, you know, recent legislation or it could be past legislation or regulatory wins that you've had in the past or recently that kind of had the most impact that people might not know about because it is a lot of behind-the-scenes work that I'm sure you're doing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think over in very recently, over the past year or two, Smart has seen some pretty significant policy and regulatory wins that that will directly impact our members. One of the most significant has been our ongoing engagement and shaping state-level extended producer responsibility legislation or EPR legislation for textiles. And I'm not sure if you're familiar with EPR, but EPR is a public policy that requires producers to take responsibility for essentially recovering and reclaiming and recycling and repurposing the products that they produce at the end of their life, consumer life. And so we've been working on legislation that's being considered, well, one that actually passed in California in 2024, but also upcoming legislation in Washington and New York. And through that advocacy that we've been doing, Smart has ensured that reuse is not only recognized but prioritized as a key element of these efforts, again, to reclaim and divert these materials from landfills. And in so doing, we've really made it such that we can safeguard our industry's ability to be able to apply the longstanding expertise and operational know-how that we have to continue to build that truly effective circular value chain. And we've also played a pivotal role in discussions related to international trade, which continue to move on right now with the administration being very focused on ensuring reciprocity, you know, from for the United States and various trade deals. We have been working with the US government to seek opportunities to expand market access to various countries that have traditionally closed off their markets to our members' materials. And so I think we're seeing some movement on that. And I would consider that a big success as well.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's great. It's nice hearing about some of the successes in policies, especially with, you know, sometimes it's common to hear a lot of bad in policy, but it it's it's refreshing when you you get to talk about that about the good, you know, whatever level that's on.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And of course, SMART has supported the Americas Act. I I just want you to kind of explain, you know, the Americas Act and SMART's role in that, and of course, your role in advancing that support in other programs.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. For for listeners who probably aren't aware, the Americas Act was actually a much larger bill focused on enhancing US competitiveness, particularly with respect to China, and also enhancing competitiveness of the Americas overall. It's it's kind of a regional strategy to fortify this part of the world against uh what I think is perceived as the threat of China. And so it's it's a much large, it's a large bill with a lot of moving pieces in order to accomplish that. But there was a section of the bill that specifically calls for investment and tax incentives to strengthen the textile reuse and recycling infrastructure. So the work that our industry does here in the United States. And I think the thinking behind that was that you know, our industry is a great opportunity to help boost that US competitiveness, create jobs, and expand sustainable manufacturing capacity. And so we we were not the lead on that bill. There was actually another trade association, the American Circular Textiles Group, which took the lead on getting that bill introduced, but they're an allied organization of ours, and that we share some of the same goals. And so as soon as we learned about the bill's introduction, uh, we were all over it. And you know, they stated our support publicly in press releases and and various media engagements and pretty much any chance that that we could get. Now, like so much legislation on Capitol Hill, it stalled because as we know, things it could be difficult to get things through in Congress these days. But I think for us, we were just really excited to see you know our industry being discussed at this level and being recognized for the the positive impacts, you know, that that we make in in all of these different areas. So again, it it was something we were more than happy to support.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And when you're you know dealing with you know these big things like the Americas Act or at the state level, like California's textile EPR rollout, you touched on a little bit. How do you ensure that industry voices are effectively represented at every policy table, uh, despite the level, whether it's local, state, or even federal?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, I think I mean it does depend on uh each level of government. And then within the state governments, it's kind of each state has their own personality. Um generally speaking, you know, we do whatever we can if there is a formal stakeholder process, like something that we saw in Washington state and now are seeing, or I'm sorry, in California and now are seeing in Washington state, the legislators that introduced these EPR measures made a real effort to have a formal process to bring together stakeholders that so that we could all weigh in. So, you know, as soon as we catch wind of that kind of activity, we we jump in and get involved. But even in the absence of that, I think it's really just staying on top of these measures when they come up, you know, identifying, you know, who the proponents are, who the bill author is, and then just kind of getting in there and introducing ourselves. And, you know, whether that's through face-to-face meetings, you know, phone calls, Zoom meetings, written submissions, whatever it is, I think the idea is just to make that connection, you know, with the people that are going to be deciding, you know, these kinds of measures and just helping them understand who our industry is and you know what we do and the positive contributions we make. And so far, you know, throughout my career, really, it's never been a heavy-handed approach. It's it's usually focused on simply education and how can we be of service and how can we, you know, provide the information that you need to make sure that the policies that you're working to adopt are well founded, grounded in evidence, you know, and and kind of all the things you you hope to see when you're developing policy.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And when you're approaching that in, you know, speaking with all these people, going to the policy table, what kind of what sort of policy innovations, let's say, like reuse first language and EPR, do you do you see as transformative when you're going about your day-to-day with these policies?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I think that a lot of the transformational work right now is going on in kind of the recognition that from our industry's perspective and and just in general when you're managing these kinds of materials at end of life, that reuse is sits at the top of the waste hierarchy. And so kind of recognizing that that priority is there and should continue to be there in all of these processes. So, you know, kind of working with policymakers to help them understand that that's where the most positive impact is. But then beyond that, you know, working with policymakers to understand that, you know, once those materials no longer have the capacity to either be reused or repurposed in some way, helping them understand that there may be, you know, other ways to recycle these materials and helping them figure out ways to support those companies that are, you know, getting involved and kind of putting their necks on the line in order to develop these technologies. And so, you know, again, I think it's it's kind of helping the policymakers understand that this isn't really just about kind of managing the waste at the end of life and and seeing to it that it doesn't go to landfills, but also supporting the companies across the board that are doing that work to make it happen. Because again, these are companies that you know are investing tremendous time and resources and capital in order to do the right thing to manage these materials. And there are also companies that, quite frankly, are economic engines here, you know, in the United States and as I mentioned abroad.
SPEAKER_00:How is SMART preparing members for shifting to that global trade and the roles that surround the secondary textiles?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I think that we do everything we can to just really take the complex policy initiatives that are coming out, and like I said at kind of the outset of our discussion, to translate them into they can understand, you know, because I think a lot of policy language can be pretty arcane, and you really kind of have to search for what the main point is. And so I think kind of the first step from our side in order to prepare them is to just translate what it is that we're seeing. And then there's kind of an element of prognostication that goes along with that. You know, you have to kind of think about, and some of this is just based on experience. Okay, if X happens, then Y happens, Z is probably the outcome. And so, you know, getting our members ready for any kind of realities that are coming up is another piece of it, you know, trying to anticipate what's next. And then I think, you know, pointing them in the direction of similar policy models that may have been enacted, impacting other industries. You know, you can learn a lot from those kinds of past activities and see how it might shape the future. So, you know, I think again, it's a combination of all of those things, and that may be in you know, policy briefs, it's newsletters, it's webinars, it's face-to-face meetings, it's individual calls. You know, I I look at myself again, I know I said this at the beginning, but kind of a translator and just a resource to help people understand, you know, what's going on and and what it might mean for their business.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. It's an important, it's an important role that you play. And I and I don't want you to undersell it, but you know, it's a significant thing that you do and beneficial to everybody that that you're working with, whether that's on the national scale or even the international scale.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:So what what are there any international collaborations or or policies that are emerging that you could talk about that are kind of reshaping that sector?
SPEAKER_02:I think right now, I mean, in terms of collaboration, I think the policy frameworks that we're seeing, we're seeing international forces right now kind of working to reshape the sector through things like extended producer responsibility. It's not going on just here in the United States, it's also happening all throughout Europe and places like Chile and Kenya as well and Canada. So EPR is a big one. But there are also some discussions going on right now at the United Nations level where they're looking at kind of definitions of what textile materials would be regarded as reusable and those that they might classify as waste. And these might sound sort of technical in nature, but they do have the potentially real-world consequences. Because if these materials are inappropriately misclassified by the United Nations, then you have the potential for these materials to become subject to export restrictions or bans when in fact these materials are intended for legitimate reuse and recycling. And that can, of course, jam up all of these circular trade flows that are going to be necessary in order to make these circular policies like EPR, you know, work. But then on top of it, it's this, and this is the one that honestly keeps me up at night. It's the potential for impacting the livelihoods of millions of people, again, through places like Africa and Central America and Asia. It's really alarming that some of these decisions are being made. I think they're very well-meaning, but maybe not always well informed or you know, maybe a little bit misinformed by misinformation, and they have the potential to impact so many millions of lives in a negative way. So, you know, I think that's to your broader question, you know, what what policy frameworks are emerging that could reshape the sector? You know, I'm kind of looking at it the perspective of as a challenge, but I think also the opportunity when I look at something like the Americas Act, there is still opportunity here that we could seize to, you know, enhance the recognition of this industry, to make sure that all of these pieces of the larger equation are coming together. You know, so there's there's a lot of positive stuff too. I don't I don't want to make it all sound scary and think in that.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, when we're talking about this kind of stuff, it it is scary, but it it's refreshing to to hear that there are solutions or there are some positives. So you really can't talk about those positives without talking about those challenges.
SPEAKER_01:You're so right. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, just you know, speaking more more on those challenges on the production side of things. What are some of the most pressing operational challenges that your members uh seem to face in complying with these new textile laws or future textile laws or even in the past?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I think that operationally, again, and and I don't want to be too repetitive on say there's a lot of question at this point in time because EPR in the United States at least is entirely new for textiles. I think I mentioned earlier that there have been, you know, a number of EPR programs that have been applied to other product categories. So, but the textile policy for EPR is totally new in the United States. California was the first state to pass it. So I think operationally, one of the challenges that they might have is just simply not knowing how it's gonna all shake out at the end, you know. And I've been with public policy people like myself, but in other roles in the sector, you know, in industry panels and even in private conversations where, you know, someone will ask, how do you think it's gonna impact the industry? And none of us can answer that because there's no precedent here, you know, in the United States. It's truly novel legislation. So I think that uncertainty, as I'm sure you know, in any kind of business uncertainty, can be a real operational challenge. And then I think also as part of the EPR framework overall, there's gonna be a lot of reporting that needs to happen. You know, the companies that produce these materials are ultimately responsible for, again, kind of figuring out how to recover these materials and fund those activities. But at the end of the day, I think, you know, they're gonna be all the different players like our industry that are helping them to accomplish that, that are gonna have to provide, you know, the data and information about where these materials are going, you know, how they're being reused, what their composition is. And I think our industry is still figuring out the best and most efficient way to communicate that information, with also without knowing what specific information they're going to need. So it all kind of ties back into that theme of uncertainty. But, you know, again, one of the things I will say about working with this industry under Smart is they are really scrappy and adaptable. I've just seen it throughout the years. So I do think they'll be able to adapt, but it can just be a little bit uncomfortable at times.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And, you know, just that kind of leads in into my next question. Just with some systems like tracking reuse or reporting metrics. How are you helping members implement those practical systems when it comes to policy goals?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, I think that at this point in time, it really is still an area where ever everyone is still learning.
SPEAKER_02:Like I said, you know, technical EPR is so new here. So, you know, we are looking at what other industries have done under earlier EPR laws and other sectors. So again, that's things like packaging and electronics and paint, and how those you know industries have gotten involved in tracking and reporting. And we're also looking at what's unfolded in other countries that are ahead of us on this. France has had a textile EPR program since 2007. So I have no doubt there's you know good learning there. And you know, that'll just mean like kind of starting at the basics, identifying the data that they already collect, then identifying, you know, what gaps they might have, and then doing that investigation into kind of what kind of reporting and tracking tools and technologies are out there to help them consolidate you know that that information into a singular package that can be presented to the powers that be. So, you know, SMART will be, I think doing that work with our members at the same time and it'll be probably a bi-directional effort where you know they're sharing information with us and and we're going out and doing some of that research and sharing it back with them and then coming up with what those best options are. So it's definitely it's still a bit of a moving target, I think is is probably the bottom line here. But you know I I think it's a process that will evolve into something more concrete.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. And then and I'm sure it'll always be a moving target. No matter how much progress you make some make I'm sure something will always come up and and you know you'll you'll have to adjust and and you know every time every single time so when it comes to policy success how do you measure that whether it's the amount of urden member adoption or or infrastructure growth.
SPEAKER_02:You know I think it's kind of based more on I or at least it starts with the outcomes. So you know from our industry's perspective specifically that means you know more garments and household textiles and other textiles getting that second and third life or maybe fourth life like I mentioned fewer headed to the landfill I think that some of it from smart's perspective so the association's perspective as a representative of the broader industry that is that growing momentum that we're seeing with things like government support. So that's you know grants and tax incentives and other funding opportunities, but also kind of the policymakers' willingness to hear what we have to say and and recognize you know again the contributions that we're making. And you know I think also we're policymakers and the public really understand that the work that our members are doing, this textile reuse and recycling is truly essential. And what happens then is that ends up being reflected in the policies that are developed and kind of the narrative that that surrounds the industry. So there are multiple layers to it but I I think kind of the emphasis is that overall recognition of what the industry is doing and kind of how that plays out in these different segments.
SPEAKER_00:Well I hope there's there's a lot of success coming your way coming smart's way and so that's kind of what leads me into my next thing what what is next? What's on the horizon for textile policy whether that's the federal or state levels you know whatever level that you want to talk about and you know some upcoming policies or bills that are kind of most crucial that you think people should keep an eye on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think that right now the the thing that we're most engaged on here in the US is is these EPR measures like I said. So California is still working to implement the law that it passed and that will unfold over the next several years through its regulatory process. And then as I mentioned states like Washington and New York are advancing their own legislation on this subject matter. And typically you know once that kind of state activity starts to pick up steam other states move forward in adopting it too. So I think the state activity is is something you know that focus on EPR at the state level is something we're very focused on. I think it'll be interesting to see that you know as that state activity and other international activity picks up, you know, whether whether the federal government starts to get involved again we we talked about Congress's issues but you know there are other levels within the federal government and agencies that you know may take an interest in this and already are showing signs in doing so. You know the other activities that I mentioned earlier this work that's going on at the United Nations level and and some of the global activities you know that are well intended but have the potential to be problematic, those are going to be things that we're working on. And I would only expect that this global dialogue is going to grow and continue. So I think kind of making sure that we're engaged and doing that same kind of educational work that we've been doing here, you know, in the United States at a more micro level and expanding that to a more macro level and and we're getting some traction on that and you know I'm I'm excited to be a part of that work again we we kind of finally have this platform to to share the the work that we're doing and to make this positive difference in a real way and again at all levels of government that that's not something that happens all the time. So it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:And how can other people get excited like industry players or listeners how can they contribute to policy development whether that's as an advocate or or a collaborator?
SPEAKER_02:Well you know I I think that the the first thing for anybody that's interested in learning more about smart as an organization, you know, I would invite them to go to our website smartasn.org and you know you can learn a lot about the industry and the background and some of these policy topics. And then I think that you know for those that are just kind of interested in staying up on these topics overall, you know, pay attention to what's you know coming out of your local and state governments in particular keep an eye on legislation you know that's being discussed again as it relates to kind of addressing these issues related to textiles. And you know the the great thing about the public policy process, you know, kind of quote unquote lobbying and advocacy oftentimes gets a bad name, but it's really part of our constitutionally protective process and ability to engage our government and express our position on these topics. And so it's not just limited to groups like Smart, it's limited to anybody you know who is a constituent of these policy makers. And so you know I would suggest that if they have an interest in this, you know, again they can reach out to groups like us to learn more or maybe if they're in the industry, you know, join our group to have that collective power. But also you know as a constituent they can do their own outreach as well. So I think a lot of it is really just staying informed. And the more that you get engaged the more you learn I mean we're all kind of learning as we go because like I said it's relatively new here in the United States. And so the nice thing about that is you know you're not behind the eight ball. You know we're kind of all learning at the same pace and and that's a good place to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah we're all in this together right now we're all going at the the same pace learning you know something new and I definitely learned learned a lot sitting down here and and speaking with you and I hope the listeners also learned learned something new. So I just want to thank you again for joining us.
SPEAKER_02:Yes absolutely thank you so much I I really enjoyed talking with you you asked great questions and and I appreciate your interest in this yeah absolutely it's it's a big part of us you know we we love sustainability anything second life or third life fourth life like you said you know when it comes to textiles and materials is there is there anything that uh you might want to add before we wrap things up no I I I mean again I I would invite people to visit the smart website again that's smartasn.org I'm also on LinkedIn people should feel free to connect with me there and of course smart is too and again that's another way you know social media is such a good way to kind of stay on top of the key developments. We're really you know making sure that we pump that out to the broader public. But I think you can again one of the things that I really pride myself on doing for SMART is making this information easy to understand for people. And so I think people can again get engaged get informed and you know feel free to start with us as a resource and and build on it from there. But you know the more voices we have in participating in this process the more that we all learn and benefit from it. So you know I I know that I have kind of a big tent approach and I know some of the other people that represent you know other segments of this larger industry value chain are very interested in hearing from other people's voices too. So it's really kind of constructive and exciting topic of policy to be involved in right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah absolutely and we look forward to kind of following along as well and Jessica we know you're you're a busy person so we really do appreciate your time with us.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you so much again I I really appreciate your interest and and taking the time to have this conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Our pleasure our pleasure well thank you again Jessica and thank you everyone for listening that's all the time we have we'll see you next time thanks for listening to this episode of the Four Worlds podcast. Until next time you can catch up on the latest innovations shaping our world at tomorrow'sworldtoday dot com follow us on Facebook and Instagram and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel
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