The Four Worlds Podcast

Turning Over a New Leaf: How Christina Selby Is Revolutionizing Plant Conservation

• Tomorrow's World Today® • Season 1 • Episode 15

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A photograph is more than just something to look at. It can influence what we pay attention to, what we name, and what we choose to protect. In this episode, we talk with conservation photojournalist and visual artist Christina Selby. She shares her journey from growing up in the Midwest and studying ecology to exploring the mountains of the Southwest and the rivers of the Amazon. Christina shows how she combines science, art, and community in her work. She discusses her view of the “more-than-human world” and how this outlook helps people. We talk about telling powerful conservation stories using portraits of scientists and ranchers at work, sweeping landscapes, drone photos that help people connect with a place, and close-up shots that reveal details of plants and pollinators. We look at ways to show nature’s beauty without focusing only on the damage from clear-cutting and habitat loss, which can make people feel hopeless. We also share field stories, like mistaking the target species, hiking for miles, and searching for a rare bloom that took a week to find. These behind-the-scenes moments offer new insights into capturing amazing images.

We talk about plant blindness and how learning the names of plants in your backyard or local park can inspire care and curiosity. We discuss how sharing knowledge in the community can lead to real solutions. Our conversation touches on the changing alpine ecosystem in the southern Rockies, the hope offered by climate refuges, new ways to recover from wildfires that support biodiversity, and lessons from Korea. Christina also tells us about the International League of Conservation Photographers and how teamwork can bring attention to issues like giant salamanders and native sunflowers.

If you want to learn how photography can help protect nature or are looking for practical ways to reconnect with the world around you, this episode is for you. Tune in, share it with a friend who loves nature, and tell us your thoughts. What species will you learn to name in your backyard this week?

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Steven Ruffing:

Welcome to the Four Worlds Podcast from Tomorrow's World Today. We're diving into the latest in tech, science, and sustainability, from nature's mysteries in the world of inspiration, to the hands-on crafts of creation, the bold breakthroughs of innovation, and the scaled-up wonders of production. This is your ticket to the stories shaping tomorrow. Welcome to another episode of the Four Worlds Podcast. We're diving into visual art, focusing on nature preservation. Visual artist Christina Selby joins us to talk about how she uses visual storytelling as a powerful tool to share the beauty of our planet. Christina, welcome to the show. It's awesome having you on. Thank you for joining us.

Christina Selby:

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Steven Ruffing:

Of course. So before we dive into this list of questions, just give the audience a brief background of who you are and what you do.

Christina Selby:

Yeah, so I grew up in Wisconsin in the Midwest and did a lot of outdoor stuff with my dad. He was he was an environmental planner. And so I was sort of raised with this ethic of looking at the world and the natural world with respect and how to treat it well and how we can live or at least try to live in in harmony with nature. And then I went ahead and got my degree in ecology and thought I would go into research science. And I did that for a little while. I studied, you know, like scuba dive in Minnesota lakes in the summer. And, you know, it was really fun to spend that time outdoors, but I just didn't feel like that work was exactly right. And so I then I moved into doing environmental education, did that for a number of years. I loved that work. And then I moved out west into the mountains and really felt like I love the mountain meadows and the wildflower fields and the fireflies. I remember a lot of that from my childhood in the Midwest. But once I got to the mountains, I felt really that like this is where I want to be and this is my place. So I spent my most of my adulthood in the West, besides a stint in the tropics when I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Panama. And so after my husband and I married, we moved here to Santa Fe, New Mexico. I've been here for 20-some years, and maybe not long after I moved here, he bought me my first camera, and I started to learn about science communications. And I felt like that was something that I really wanted to move out of environmental education, explore that idea. And so, you know, took a course that they offered here, some journalists offered here on science communications, started writing for different publications, and then started bringing my photography into that. And it's just kind of grown. And I've moved more, I still do quite a bit of writing, but I really love the visual storytelling and sort of have moved more in that direction as my life continues. So that's a little bit, you know, the thread of like being in nature, being connected to nature follows me my whole life, but I've explored it in many different ways.

Steven Ruffing:

So right. But let's go through that journey moving around a lot, finally ending up in the Midwest, and then traveling all around the world. Would you say, you know, just growing up, that was just early inspiration for your love of nature in the outdoors?

Christina Selby:

Yeah, I mean, we didn't travel so much when I was younger, but we did a lot of camping, a lot of being outside. My mother's family are farmers. You know, they had a dairy farm and we would spend our summers there, you know, occasionally get to milk a cow, but we would be on the lakes and be, you know, swimming and fishing and just spending kayaking and spending a lot of time outdoors. So I think that was, I would say that's the major influence for me. And my other grandma on my mom, my dad's side was a singer and a painter and an artist, and she loved flowers, and so I would spend time with her in her rose garden. And so I kind of got it from different angles, you know, sort of very practical, hands-on farming side, and then the more artistic side from my my dad's family.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah, it's like both of those worlds kind of combine with you the agriculture side, the love of nature, and then the arts side, just kind of combining into one, and that leads us right into a lot of the work that you do. I I looked at all of your photography work and all of that, but it has spanned across many medias, I guess you could say. And on your site, you know, something that popped out to me, you know, your work explores, quote, who we are in relation to the more than human world. What does that phrase mean to you? What does it mean for your work and how does your photography help us kind of redefine our role as caretakers in this world?

Christina Selby:

Yeah, so that phrase more than human world, I think sort of the first person who brought that was a writer named David Abrams. He's actually based here in Santa Fe, New Mexico as well. Or he used to be, I think he's moving around a bit now, but it's sort of to describe our place. You know, there's one view, sort of worldview that puts humans above everything else. It's our world to do what we want with. It's sort of this domination consumption mentality. And so the more than human is sort of to put us in place of like being more in the interconnected space. Like we're here on this planet with these other species. This this world is not just about humans, and we need to learn how to live well with the plants and the animals and the rest of nature. And so, you know, I think nature photography can bring that awareness generally because we're looking closely, we're paying attention to nature, we're showing things that people might not see in their everyday lives, especially if we're living in urban environments. And, you know, there's a lot of photography out there now, a lot of what we're seeing on the screens, but I still believe that an incredibly beautiful or unique or or like a set of photos that are telling a story can really stop people in their tracks and have them, have them consider, you know, oh my gosh, I never knew this thing about this flower or about nature in this way, or that place is just so incredibly beautiful, and I'm feeling a sense of awe and wonder, and that's you know, opening my heart a little bit to to something more than I've experienced before.

Steven Ruffing:

And to capture that feeling, you know, out in the natural world. You do use several, you do use several techniques to do that. I'd like if you can kind of go through some of those, explain what they are and how you choose the right visual pool to tell conservation or preservation story effectively.

Christina Selby:

Yeah, so when I'm working on a conservation story, I'm looking at presenting different images in different ways. So I'm looking for, you know, who is the hero of this story, whether that's a plant or an animal or a scientist or some other person. And, you know, usually I'm looking at making a portraiture of them or photographing them in their environment, and I'm choosing a camera with a different lens for that. And but then I'm also wanting to like establish the story in a place. And so that's when I'm using my landscape, or I might use a drone to, you know, if it's it's something that I might be interested in seeing from above and it has a really graphic nature about it, or it's just such a large place I'm needing to capture that the drone can do a better job than me on the ground with the camera. And then I'm wanting to capture the whole sense of the area, and so that includes all the little things. I'm getting out my macro camera, showing you the details of that place that you might be able to appreciate, you know, at a closer range like that. I'm showing you some of the action that's happening on the ground, you know, animals interacting with plants or animals interacting with each other, or the different way that this the seasons are expressing themselves on the landscape. And so I'm really looking at sort of when I'm telling a story, conservation story, most often showing you the whole life of the species. So I'm using all the all the different tools and points of view and lenses to be able to do that, or I'm showing you like I wanting, I'm wanting to give you a sense of place as I'm experiencing it as I'm out there. And so I'm I'm wanting to, you know, give you a different perspective through different lenses and different tools.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah, absolutely. And and whenever you're out there capturing this and trying to tell a story visually, how do you balance maybe, of course, the beauty of nature? But I'm sure there's some not so nice things. How do you balance, you know, telling those two sides of the story if you ever do come across that?

Christina Selby:

Yeah, I mean, so that's a that's where conservation photography cut becomes a niche sort of of nature photography. Nature photography, you you can show the beauty and the incredible nature all day, but it's the conservation photographers who turn around and show you the forest that cuts down is cut down, or the habitat that's destroyed, or you know, something not so pretty going on with the animals. And you know, we I try to be careful about what I'm presenting because I want people to know what's going on and I and I want, you know, those photos can have an impact, but I'm also trying not to overwhelm people and scare them. So it's definitely a balance between showing the beauty and the inspiration and and you know, unlocking that wonder and awe in people, which can have people want to take action, but also knowing, you know, the reality of how humans are interacting sometimes with different species is is not so pretty. And we also need to represent that as well so people can make informed decisions.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah, and I think your emphasis on storytelling and motivating others to act kind of leads into that as well. What in your experience is the most powerful powerful element a photograph or documentary or video can possess to inspire conservation action from other people?

Christina Selby:

I think it's maybe not one element, but it's a it's a good sort of way that you can bring things together. So, for example, I just saw an incredible short documentary film called Hellbent. And it was funny, it was emotional, it was beautiful, it was poignant, it was weird and wild because they were, you know, it was the care character was this giant weird salamander in the south. And so, you know, you really want to sort of show all sides and characters, whether it's animal or people, how they're experiencing that and sort of the depths and the variations of their emotions. And sort of, I think the best stories bring together that whole picture, you know, that it's yes, there's beauty, and there's also difficulty and challenges, and you know, like humans are complex and our emotions are complex, and so is nature. And so the the the more that we can represent that that complexity and not just have it be sort of a one-note type of thing, I think the more that engages people in wanting them to act on behalf of nature and be that voice.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah, absolutely. Just from your experience as well, what have you found to be some of the biggest challenges while you're out there working that face that conservation photojournalists like yourself kind of face today? Any advice or that you can tell people, you know, just a heads up of what are some of those challenges while you're out there working and capturing these things?

Christina Selby:

Well, I mean, there's like the challenges when you're in the field, you know, sometimes you're encountering weather and conditions, or I worked on a story for Audubon magazine where I was supposed to photograph this ptarmigan that lives at the top of the mountains. And you know, I spent like three days in this one area. I had the GPS points from the scientists, I had done all my research and I found absolutely nothing, right? And so I had to go to my editor and tell her, well, the birds didn't show up. And thankfully, she understands that this is part of the process and chose another place. But I think you really need sort of perseverance and patience to capture these stories, and you need time, and you need not to sit in your tent when you're not finding the bird or the blind, the bird blind, and you know, not sitting there telling yourself, Oh, I'm the worst photographer ever, this sucks, I'm a failure, you know. Like just remind yourself it's part of the process. You keep pursuing it, keep doing your research, keep talking to people. You know, it just like it just takes nature doesn't always show up. And if we're in a hurry, nature kind of sometimes plays with us, you know, doesn't give us exactly what we need. And so it is a it is a profession that takes people with patience and can be calm and can like stay positive and just keep working at it. And you know, another challenge is sort of just generally what we're seeing in the world, you know, there's lack of political will to tackle a lot of these issues, and so, and you know, it's just the constant, you know, I'm 51, it's not new, but it feels like it's a little more intense right now in terms of being a minority voice, but you know, it's something I believe in. And I think we just have to remember it's not about us, it's about the things that we're photographing and how much we love them and and continuing to to give our voice. And, you know, there's lots of challenges I could talk about, but I would just tell people just if you love it and you're passionate about it, just keep doing it.

Steven Ruffing:

And yeah, no, I'm so glad that you brought that up about being patient. Sometimes nature has a funny way of telling us to just kind of slow down for a second, appreciate what you're doing and and where you are. I'd love to hear about that process of when you see a single image, like one of your pieces, the and you have a beautiful picture, but kind of explain, I'm sure, the hours, days, maybe even weeks that actually goes into maybe just one single photograph.

Christina Selby:

Yeah. So, for example, I do a lot of work with native plant conservation groups, and so I'm photographing plants a lot, and plants are just a passion of mine. I find them eternally interesting, and the new science on plant communication is just absolutely mind-blowing. So I I did a project and still work on it once in a while to photograph rare species in the southwest. And rare species are rare because there's you know few of them, their habitats might be really just small sort of microclimates that they're living in, and so they're quite challenging to find a lot of times. So I went down to southern New Mexico to try to find this single plant, and I had I had the data from the scientists exactly where they found in the, you know, there's like sort of three square miles that this plant grows in, and it's a five-hour drive from my house. So I leave my family for four days. I'm like, I can, I'm sure I can do this in four days, right? Get this one single plant that I need. And so I like reach the site, I have a little lodge that I'm staying in. I drive on the forest roads for many hours, and then and then I walk around and I'm trying to find this plant. And it's this like morning glory. It's a vine that grows, you know, it grows on other plants pretty tall. And so I start to find it, but only the vine and not the plant, you know, and like the afternoon goes by, I'm hiking on like pretty steep terrain. I've fallen a few times, got a bunch of scratches, and I you know, I'm totally off trail, and then loose rock is falling, and I'm scrambling around with, you know, very heavy camera gear on my back. And I do that for about two days, and all I find are the vines and like a couple flowers that had already bloomed and been pollinated and are north, right? So it's like that a lot of times, and then like in the last 30 minutes with I like had to get back because my kid had some school thing, and oh no, I know what it was. My husband broke his leg up in the north at our cabin, and I get a call, he's in the emergency room. My 16-year-old's there with him, like, oh god, I gotta go. Yeah, finally, like taking this phone call, and I just see this like one single bloom on a plant in front of me. I'm like, yes, and it was perfect. Spent like you know, 90 minutes working at different angles, got the shot, and went back to the emergency room to get my husband.

Steven Ruffing:

I'm telling you, nature works in a very funny way. All that happened for a reason. You know, you you spend all these hours looking for it, and then boom.

Christina Selby:

Like, all right, I guess you put enough effort in a little one, one, one, yeah.

Steven Ruffing:

It really made you work for that one. And I'm sure that that was beautiful and it was it was all worth it. I'm glad it worked out. Just that story of of hiking those hills, battling the elements. Tell me about plant blindness because people can, you know, not necessarily have to go through battling those elements. They could look right in their own backyard, but they just might not know it. And is that what you consider plant plant blindness?

Christina Selby:

Yeah, I mean, there's it was kind of coined by a couple scientists. There there was a study done a while ago. I I'm not sure I get this exactly right, but like at about three or four years of age, a child can recognize 20 corporate logos, right? Like they know the McDonald's sign, they know whatever, Chuck E. Cheese or whatever, but they can't recognize an aspen tree from juniper tree. Like they wouldn't be able to tell you that. And so when people look out at plants, often they're just seeing a green wall or maybe some, you know, maybe they like wildflowers and they see some color, but they couldn't tell you what they are or anything about them. And that is a problem in terms of conservation because plants, you know, they don't have the same conservation measures or recognition as endangered species in order to be able to protect them and and you know, keep rare species, but also like larger habitats. Plants are just a foundation of a habitat, you know, there's always other pollinators and animals that meet those plants in the habitat. And so I think that was why that term came along because there's just such a difference. You know, it's hard enough to get an animal listed on the endangered species and get the right protection so that those things can survive and continue and have the support they need from us. But it's even more challenging to get plants recognized for some type of conservation status in order to keep around and healthy.

Steven Ruffing:

Right. And of course, the reason I bring this up, I sort of prefaced this your sacred seeds project kind of highlights the plant blindness and rare and endangered plants that you've documented. How can people look at that project and how can they see the value in the floor in their own backyards or the endangered plants or rare plants that they may see?

Christina Selby:

Yeah, I mean, I think one thing in general that people are experiencing is just to sort of disconnect from, you know, all of the even services we could say that nature provides for us. So we're breathing oxygen today because of plants, right? And most of our clothes are from plant material, and so are our homes, and and so just that basic recognition of of what plants allow us and how they allow us to live on this planet is important. And so just walking out your back door, and you know, one thing that I've always loved to do, and and my husband didn't really understand it at first, was just to learn some of the names of plants in my area. Is that just, you know, like you don't go around saying hey you to everybody, you know, if you want to give somebody, you learn their name, right? And so that's sort of a basic first introduction. Just say hello and oh my gosh, you know, it doesn't even have to be the regular name or the scientific name. Give it your own name of something that about it that interests you, but at least like stab establish that basic relationship. And so I'll do that with plants and I'll do that with birds, and you know, just getting to know what you see every day, just to be able to like, you know. look out and separate the green of a aspen from the green of a conifer tree. You know, just start with those basic distinctions and build that appreciation and and hopefully we can, you know, sort of come back to a place where we're recognizing the importance of these things in our lives.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah, I think you I mean that's such an excellent way to put it because I think oftentimes people do walk outside and forget that these flowers or the greenery or birds in the sky are living things. And the way you put it saying you don't go around saying hey you to everybody. I just really enjoyed like how you put that and how you put that in perspective. It's is that something that people can kind of get from your work as well in that visual storytelling.

Christina Selby:

Yeah I think so I mean I'm really trying when I'm photographing plants per se or bird you know I do a lot of birds as well and a lot of landscapes. I'm trying to like capture the essence of a place and so I love to photograph plants in their habitat sort of with a wide lens that's showing you both at the same time. But but I get up really close so you can see the details and the form and and what makes that plant unique and then you can see where it lives and what its you know place is like and you know maybe get a sense of why it's there and and you know you can maybe then remember that oh that's a clover's cactus and it's only lives in this hundred mile strip in northwestern New Mexico in these crazy desolate badlands but it somehow thrives in that area. And so often choosing plants that have a great story to to tell so that like captures people's interests and and you know you just I feel like a lot of times I'm just opening the door for people to pay attention and to remember like we talked about in the beginning oh we're part of a more than human world. You know there's more here that I might not be paying attention to and maybe it's interesting all of a sudden at least beautiful and that that opens some window in my heart.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah absolutely couldn't agree more and that kind of shifts to another project you know I came across the the Southern Rockies project. I'd love if you kind of explain the background of that and what the I guess purpose if you lack of a better term of that project and what you kind of wanted to do covering that in you know in the Rockies covering what you were seeing there.

Christina Selby:

Yeah so now living in Santa Fe New Mexico we're right at the very tail end of the Rocky Mountain range which goes all the way up into Canada. Like I said at the beginning I really have fallen in love in the with the mountains. I love spending time in the mountains and those landscapes that are sort of at the top of the mountains and above treeline are some of the most rapidly changing environments on the planet because of climate change. And so I wanted to be able to tell the story of how they're changing and also how scientists are thinking about that and what some of the the ideas for helping that ecosystem continue to survive and thrive are. Being at the tail end of the Rocky Mountains I feel like gives us a really good picture because things are sort of happening here first. We're getting hotter and drier faster than the rest of the range and so the studies and the knowledge that is being gathered here will serve you know the whole range eventually in terms of what's what's going on.

Steven Ruffing:

And of course that's just you know one example of you know climate change's impact on what's going on in our environment and then of course you add stories that you've covered like the lost monkey species in the Amazon to rural communities saving uh sunflower how of throughout all of these stories was there one or several experiences that you've had that kind of shifted your personal perspective on maybe some environmental hope?

Christina Selby:

And they all have had an impact on me for sure but you know those two stories you mentioned the Amazon I spent six weeks on a houseboat with a scientific crew and also our like local guides and and you know there's about 20 of us and there's people from Mexico and Colombia and then we were traveling on you know in very remote sections of Brazil on these rivers and meeting community people and they would become our tour guides and our teachers for the day in terms of learning about that environment. And when I worked in Santa Rosa, New Mexico on the sunflower story it was also you know I was working with scientists and a crew and we were sort of coming into a community that wasn't necessarily our own but just to see in both of those places like yeah it's super challenging to make to have a good livelihood in the Amazon and in Santa Rosa New Mexico they're both you know have their own challenges in terms of thriving economically but the the deep love that I saw for the places that they were living in you know the knowledge that they had about those places you know Santa Rosins are a lot of ranchers and and farmers and land-based people and in Amazon they're you know very much still living off of the land they're hunting animals for their meals they're growing little plots of manioca you know like yucca and things and so just to see like you know there's definitely issues in both of those places with how people are treating the land and there's also still a sort of a love and a desire to do it well. They just you know not those two things aren't necessarily connecting because of the world we live in and the economic pressures but that that gives me hope just to see you know no matter sort of where we are economically and also this is same in my experience in the Peace Corps living in places of extreme poverty and and seeing how people are are faring or not faring but you know that connection that they have to the land still and living life directly from it was something that gave me hope and and you know knowing that that is still within us humans and and we have the the capacity and the knowledge and the and the will to do that. We just need right circumstances to be able to do it.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah I'm glad that you mentioned your time in the Peace Corps because that kind of leads into everything all of this this combination from all of your projects your time in the Peace Corps of course you authored a guidebook Best Wildflower hikes of New Mexico all of this combines activism, on the ground activism, environmental education how does all of that motivate or influence the stories that you choose to per pursue now?

Christina Selby:

Yeah I mean I think the stories that I choose often have sort of interest for me in terms of the you know nature that's being represented so rare and endangered species. But I'm also you know very attracted to to stories that include agricultural communities or communities that are land-based and and sort of struggling with conservation issues. I find uh a lot of wisdom and knowledge can come from from those kind of stories and and that sort of juxtaposition if I'm working on a a story that I'm gonna present in a in a magazine or publication or even a documentary film like I'm I'm sort of looking for those things coming together sort of incredible nature that is threatened somehow and local community that is trying to figure it out.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah just uh all sorts of work coming from your end and and that kind of puts you as let leads into this and you're an uh emerging league member of the International League of Conservation photographers that's a mouthful they always choose the they always choose the shortest titles don't they ILCP you can just say that yeah there you go ILCP of course that's just my lack of knowledge I could have just said that now can it explain you know what this is and and what role you see this collective body playing in shaping the future of environmental protection.

Christina Selby:

Yeah so we're a group of people like me who are telling visual stories about conservation and culture and basically like bringing that voice of nature through our our visual storytelling and there are photographers and there are filmmakers and they're podcasters and you know you have to uh apply and sort of present your work and show that you are that your work has some impact and some outcomes for conservation like that's really where the road hits the rubber but it's I think we're at a hundred and well we just had a new people apply every year so I think we're at 130 members at this point people from all over the world and we just had a gathering in Washington DC where people were presenting their projects presentations and showing their films and we were meeting with editors of magazines who publish stories that we're working on and so it's just it's a really great community. I really love it and I think the organization started from Christina Midmeyer who is pretty well known conservation photographer and you know it's since grown into this 130 membership and there's a lot of changes going on in the organization right now but I think we're going to see a lot more sort of collaborative work between the different members to be able to tell stories like this on a larger scale and working in different and more unique publishing avenues. But I think there's a lot of power in us coming together to work on a certain issue or a certain campaign and really putting these things in the forefront of people's minds. And I think you know the times are calling for even more right now. And I think we're gonna see a lot of good work and good collaboration coming forward. And I think that the power of that group is yeah there's a lot of photography and video coming at us from our screens but you know this is a really focused way and we're really learning how to like tell and impact and sort of rise above the din of all the other photography you know and like they're just people that are super passionate and care about all kinds of little stories like giant salamanders and you know the vultures that are in the the dumps of India and you know just like incredibly passionate wonderful people who are just wanting to bring that voice of nature to the forefront.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah it's important to have that passion especially for what you do and and what you know your group does so that is that is special to hear then and and before we you know go here I just want to know talking about the future what what conservation stories or parts of the world are you excited to explore next or which ones are you going to explore next?

Christina Selby:

Yeah so I love my Southwest. I think I'm definitely working on more stories here. I'm working right now to bring a bunch of different stories together under this idea of climate refuge which is an idea that gives me a lot of hope. So places that have certain qualities that you know have maybe withstood climate shifts like ice ages in the past that can serve to you know that will likely survive the current human driven climate shift that we're going through and that gives me hope just because we can prioritize those places and they're sort of like you know these little chips of biodiversity seeds of the future that can spread when conditions improve in the future. So I'm working on that kind of story. And then I'm also really interested along with the the sort of Rocky mountain work that I've been doing on how the innovations coming around about how forests recover from mega wildfires. You know we have a lot of those in the Southwest these days and there are some really interesting innovations going on and so I'm actually going to South Korea in June to look at they they have um they just sort of been recognized for their really forward thinking wildfire recovery initiatives that have prioritized biodiversity over sort of commercial species of trees and so I'm going to to take a look at that and see what we can learn from that and bring back to the US and to that story. And so it's richer. So I'm looking forward to getting to know the East Asia Southeast Asia.

Steven Ruffing:

Yeah no that's exciting and and I'm sure I hope a lot of people look forward to that and I wish we could get to every project that you have worked on and future projects that you're going to be working on. So this is your platform right now if if you want to tell people where to find all of the projects that you've worked on all of your photos your videos all that stuff the floor is yours.

Christina Selby:

Oh thanks yeah you can go to my website christina mselby.com and I've got all my portfolios for my different projects and I've got all my you know links to magazine articles and links to movies and and documentaries that I've been involved with on there and that's kind of a hub where you can find everything about me if you're interested.

Steven Ruffing:

Perfect that's we love a all in one site you just go to makes it very simple very simple for for everybody. Christine I really appreciate your time thank you so much for for joining us. Yeah thanks it was a fun conversation appreciate yeah we're looking forward to you know keeping an eye out what you're doing in the future as well. Thank you appreciate it thank you and thank you everybody for listening that's all the time we have today we'll see you next time thanks for listening to this episode of the Four Worlds podcast. Until next time you can catch up on the latest innovations shaping our world at tomorrow'sworld today.com follow us on Facebook and Instagram and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel

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